Is the NYSE Manipulating Trades?

By Gilbert Gman Mendez

Intuitive Surgical Hits $393!

The Hoffman Brothers called ISRG at $152 and it ran to $393 for a 158% gain! See what the Hoffman Bros recommend you buy NEXT.

Gilbert “Gman” Mendez is the Head Trader at SMB Capital.

All my pre-hybrid sketchy experiences with NYSE have left me with a sour taste. If you were to sit at my desk, you would hear how I’d pay higher ECN fees to EDGX or get worse fills rather than to give any business to NYSE. I refuse to send any orders through them. And it is not like my 50Mln shares a year would really make a huge difference. Call me loco but I just don’t give them my business.

Although, while reviewing my numbers from last year I realized that being overly stubborn about this cost me close to 40-50k — and that’s just a low ball. Talk about a self-imposed rip. In the words of Chaz played by Will Ferrell in Wedding Crashers: “What an Idiot!!”

So, coming into this year I made changes to my execution hotkeys. I added NYSE sweep keys and I moved them up the ECN toggle list for bidding and offering stock.  And while my ECN fees have come down slightly, I am disturbed by the shenanigans of how my orders are treated. Let me give you a couple of examples.

First, I must admit I have never been a fan of stop orders. But now that I have way too many positions riding at the same time, it is the only way I can manage my risk. Nonetheless, I only use orders triggered by prints locally on my computer to route through ARCA. I have always felt that stop orders that reside at the NYSE exchange can be manipulated. The exchange can argue all they want about the floor specialist not being able to see the orders, but I find it to be too big of a coincidence that stops too often go off at some mysterious prints. Check out what happened to the trader who sits next to me who put in a NYSE buy-stop at 45.24 for 100 shares to cover his short.

Someone please explain how it is possible for a buy-stop that is hosted at the exchange to go off when 45.24 prints but does so only by printing the 100 shares that were in the buy stop. Coincidental? Maybe. Sketchy? Very!

But wait let me show you my personal favorite these days. Getting my orders front run by NYSE. Let me illustrate what this looks like on the tape with the following short clip:

This front running nonsense happens to me at least 5-8 times a day — often when I have size in a position. I am starting to wonder if I am really saving that much money by trading again with my boys at NYSE. I really do wish some of those tens of thousands of dollars that I annually “contribute” to the SEC actually went toward making the system a bit more transparent. It disgusts me that I have to deal with these shenanigans. I am all for businesses making money when offering a service, but this is just ridiculous.

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  • t-man
    gman----take a look at NYSE's blog....a lot of people share you same views...i would urge you to post to that....they actualy read your ideas and post as well....i'd like to think some changes might occur.

    t-man http/exchanges.nyse.com
  • Thanks for the tip, t-man. We'll also check it out. If you have specific links to posts, please send them and we'll feature them in a post and credit you.
  • Anton
    Goldman Sachs High Frequency Trading explained by Max Keiser
    http://www.youtube.com/v/siMQyAMQapM&amp
  • Is the NYSE Manipulating Trades? Yes.
  • Exactly. I'd love to get more videos and evidence.
  • Thank you all for the comments.

    Oleg there is a big difference between people having the same idea and beating you to prints compared to front running. It can happen that other market participants have the same trade idea and you get slipped or get no fills because of this. But it is not as apparent as front running.

    Front running is nothing more than an algorithm that gets to see your live order just milliseconds prior to getting to the exchange servers. I am sure a lot of my orders are getting cut more than I realize in the more active names I trade but that's the price I pay to trade them. But in the example I provided it is clear that my live order to sell 400 shares triggered some algorithm to clear the bids to force me to sell to him lower. Hope that makes sense.

    Brian - I prefer to trade on ARCA and EDGX for the rebates when posting liquidity (buying on the bid or selling on the offer). Whenever possible I try to remove liquidity (buy/sell at market) from EDGA or NYSE as the removing liquidity fee is much lower. About $2 per thousand shares savings to be more exact. This may not seem like a lot but when you trade 4Mln shares a month this can quickly add up to thousands of dollars.

    When to bid/offer versus sending market orders is a very complicated topic. I could probably right a book chapter on this concept. But here is my rule of thumb. If the stock is very liquid - think BAC, then I buy/sell at market using NYSE and always try get out for a profit by posting my bids/offers using ARCA or EDGX.. For names that are not as liquid as BAC I do the same thing unless I see my orders are being front-run like in the example above. In such cases I just use ARCA or EDGX for everything.

    Happy trading to all.
  • Brian
    If these types of things are so common...are there any exchanges the pros prefer? Which are cheapest? which are fastest? I guess it is a fine line between speed, slippage, and cost, and finding an exchange that gives you the best net result in those things is the goal. Anyone have a guess which exchange it is? I am just a new trader trying to keep costs down!
  • Oleg
    Is it possible that other guys wanted to do exactly the same order?

    In today's trading, I was about to hit a limit order to sell a mini-bounce (I didn't create the order yet) and the price dropped right in front of me. On two separate occasions.

    Gman, I guess my question is which metric would you use to distinguish between front-running and other participants trying to do the same trade?
  • Bob Tessier
    I worked in the order room for a major discount broker for five years during the dot.com boom and saw this happen all the time. When the business model changed to day traders who could get level 2 quotes, we heard it more and more and there was nothing you could do except call the market makers and they would tell u it was a good fill. There is nothing you can do about about it except move your business away. I heard "the stock was trading in a fast market" from NASDAQ MM's even if it wasn't. Bendover and take your medicine.
  • Bob, thanks for sharing your experience. I look forward to the day where we get some total transparency at one of the exchanges. They will win in the long run.
  • I share your disgust with the NYSE. Their days are limited, they'll more than likely end up as a museum with a few desks and drones to keep up appearances. Where else will the frothing, whining heads at CNBC congregate to spout their garbage? ;>

    Happy Trading!

    QB
  • Agreed, QB. It's very screwed up. I know a ton of pro traders who complain about the same issues.
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This post was written by:

Gilbert Gman Mendez - who has written 14 posts on Wall St. Cheat Sheet.


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