How is Texas Hold’em Poker Similar to Investing? Part 1

By The Masked Financier

Intuitive Surgical Hits $393!

The Hoffman Brothers called ISRG at $152 and it ran to $393 for a 158% gain! See what the Hoffman Bros recommend you buy NEXT.

wsop-chipPeter Lynch – one of the most well known US money managers – has written that one of the most valuable educational tools for a would-be-investor is playing poker. Other investment titans also have great regard for the skills that an investor can learn from playing Texas Hold’em.  These include Bill Gross, David Einhorn, Steve Cohen, and even Warren Buffett.  Buffett has preached his investment wisdom using the medium of poker more than once.

However, many investors feel that poker is simply a form of gambling where there is a significant element of luck involved.  They find it hard to believe poker is similar to investing and can be used to teach investing. As I will demonstrate below, these two beliefs are untrue.

Note: In the title and the rest of this post you will see references specific to Texas Hold’em poker. This type of poker is generally regarded as one of the most complex forms of the game.  Therefore, Texas Hold’em is one of the best poker forms to teach investing concepts.

There are many similarities between Texas Hold’em poker and investing:

1. Solo Occupations: Both investing and poker are ultimately solo occupations.

People are well aware that poker is a solo occupation because only you can sit down at the table and start playing.  Ultimately, investing is essentially a solo occupation too.  There is only one person who finally pulls the trigger on making an investment or a trade.  Yes, that person may have support from a team of researchers, but when it comes down to putting the money on the line there is only one person who can make that decision.

Another way of demonstrating how investing as a business is a solo occupation can be shown by comparing investing with other types of businesses.  Granted, many businesses can be operated by a sole trader. However, in most cases they won’t scale up well.  You can’t manage a company like GE without a support cast of thousands.  However, Warren Buffett can control the entire wealth of Berkshire Hathaway from Nebraska, simply making investment decisions on his own (well okay he gets some help from Charlie Munger).

2. Business Plan Required: If you want to invest, trade, or play Texas Hold’em successfully, you need to develop a business plan and learn the patience to adhere to this plan.

This is one of the most important parts of good investing and poker play, yet it is probably the piece of work that is ignored most often by both investors and poker players.  A business plan for Texas Hold’em poker should outline the following aspects of your poker strategy:

  • The type of games you will play (e.g., limit, pot limit, no limit, cash games, or tournaments);
  • The game strategy you will use which should tie in with your chosen game type, skills, and mentality (i.e., tight or loose aggressive);
  • The bankroll you will need to start playing with — both at an overall level and for each game you play;
  • Your “limit movement” strategy (i.e., how you will increase/reduce your limit levels based on your results); and,
  • How you will record and analyze your performance.

The similarities with an investment business plan are remarkable. Such a plan must incorporate the following elements:

  • The type of securities in which you will invest (e.g., stocks, futures, options);
  • The strategy you will employ when investing which should be based on the type of security you are investing in, your investing abilities, and your emotional capabilities;
  • The starting capital you will need to have before beginning to invest — both for each investment and at an overall level;
  • Your investment sizing strategy which would be based on your overall capital level, risk strategy, and ongoing performance; and,
  • What tools you will employ for recording and analyzing you investment track record.Poker_Table

3. Serious People Make Money: When practiced properly by serious people, both activities are done with the objective of making money.

Many professional poker players have become famous since the mass promotion of the World Series of Poker: Doyle Brunson, Phil Hellmuth, and Chris Ferguson (and don’t forget the Texas Hold’em Investing hedge fund supremo David Einhorn).  These players all focus intensively on their poker and it is often their sole source of income.  No Friday night games with the friends for these players.  And it isn’t all glamor either – sitting out long runs of bad hands in half empty casinos isn’t exactly Hollywood.  Unfortunately the non-serious players typically lose all their money with the exception of the rare big win which keeps their interest.

The difference between the serious and non-serious people in investing is much more tragic than in Texas Holdem Poker.  The serious investors also generally support themselves fully with their gains from investing.  They focus fiercely on the markets and concentrate on analyzing them as much as possible based on their various strategies.  The names are well known – George Soros, Warren Buffett, Ken Griffin, Peter Lynch, and we can also look to the example set by the various traders interviewed here on Wall St Cheat Sheet by Damien and Derek.  However, at least the non-serious poker players aren’t in it to help secure their retirement.  The non-serious investor tries to put money to work in the markets without sufficient preparation, research, and determination.  This typically leads to inadequate relative returns, or even worse, complete losses of capital.

4. Element of Luck: There are elements of luck in both fields in the short-term, but in the long-term the skill of the player/investor should be expected to result in financial gain.

Short-term luck in poker and investing cuts both ways – good and bad.  In Texas Hold’em Poker good luck can come by being dealt AA pocket cards, which then helps to win a big pot. Or, luck can come when the river card completes a flush to beat the opponent with three of a kind.  On the other hand, the bad luck can come when the AA pocket cards with a third Ace on the flop is beaten by the amateur who started with 27 offsuit and ends up with a poker of 7s.  But in the long-run, the good player will maximize the benefits of good luck and minimize the damage of the bad to produce an ultimately positive return.

Luck in investing is based on the fact that despite endless analysis and research about a company, a security, or a market, something unexpected can always happen that causes an investment to perform better or worse than expected.  BP can find new oil in the Gulf of Mexico. Ebay can sell Skype for nearly the purchase price. These are both examples of good luck.  On the other hand, Washington Mutual can announce it has run out of funds not long after one of the smartest private equity managers invested billions of new capital. Or, Bear Stearns can go nearly to zero out of nowhere before being acquired by JP Morgan.

The intelligent investor will ensure that the portfolio is constructed in such a way that it can survive such incidences of bad luck by sizing investment positions appropriately. At the same time, good luck can be taken advantage of by letting the profits from a position run as long as possible after the good news has emerged.  Thus, the strong investor will never be immune to the effects of luck, but can manage the portfolio in such a way to benefit and protect from luck where possible and help achieve long-term positive returns.

5. Knowledge of Probability Needed: Investing and poker both require a knowledge of probability and statistics for the actor to perform well.

Poker requires players to evaluate approximately the probabilities of winning a game based on the player’s pocket cards, the cards on the table, and the likely cards held by the other players.  The key concepts are:

  • Pot Odds – comparing the amount expected to be won in a game with the probabilities of winning based on the current situation;
  • Implied Odds – adjusting the Pot Odds to incorporate the likely future betting which will occur in the game; and,
  • Expected Value – the long-term value of the current situation for your hand based on how effective the hand is over a large number of hands, which would smooth out the effect of bad beats and good luck in the short-term.

Mini Free Trial AdStatistics knowledge is also important for poker when analyzing the results of your play, determining how effective you have been, and where are your weak points.

Investing requires knowledge of probability in order to calculate the expected value of your planned and actual investments based on the probability universe you have developed for the investments according to knowledge of the situation.  This way of thinking allows you to compare the risk and reward elements of each investment in a rational way which prevents emotion from overtaking your thoughts process.

Part 2 of this series continues the description of similarities between poker and investing with the final five key elements. This post was originally posted at Texas Holdem Investing on September 9, 2009.

If you are interested in real-time market analysis, click here to follow Wall St. Cheat Sheet on Twitter.

Looking for More Trading 101 Expertise? Try this post:

Dr. Brett Steenbarger Shares When to Exit a Trade

Reading the Tape with Gman: How to Read the Tape



Sharing Is Cool

Looking for Profits? Wall St. Cheat Sheet Premium subscribers have been crushing the markets with winning stock picks and a professional navigator in the hot gold and silver sectors. Let our team of professionals give you their best investing and trading ideas:

Click here now for your FREE trial to any of our acclaimed newsletters

Learn More

  • Simone Perkins
    Good article! very informative! I can't believe that online poker can be really serious at times. oh well, for me playing online poker william hill poker is a leisure time and my stress buster. But if you come to think of it, online poker can be a good investment. Nice thought!
  • Hope to see more blogs like this one. Great! :-)
  • Thanks!
  • B.M.
    conclusion: if you don't know anything about poker, everything you wrote is in question. How could YOU possibly tell us how the two activities are similar when you don't understand one of them?
  • OZJB, B.M.

    Thanks for the feedback and I think that I will have to consider changing the example to make sure that it is more clear cut.

    However, as a poker purist, I'd have to point out that the situation you both discuss would be where both players went to the River and showed their cards.
    Therefore, I should have completed the sentence describing the game play with "beaten by the amateur who started with 27 offsuit and ends up with a full house of 7s and 2s having muscled the AAA out of the game on the flop".

    Consider the following hand sequence:
    Player 1 - AA
    Player 2 - 27o
    Flop A27

    At this stage stage we have:
    Player 1 - AA A27
    Player 2 - 27 A27

    It's likely at this stage that Player 2 is betting very heavily with a pretty lucky two pair (since there are still 4 outs to a full house and Player 2 is unaware of Player 1 having AA and Player 1 is demonstrably loose) and Player 1 may well fold after betting heavily up to the flop and having being confident of winning with AAA. Of course there would have to be someone else in the game to continue the betting to the Turn and River for the 77722 or 77222 to come up.

    Therefore, maybe you will reconsider inviting me to that home game as your patsy (although I'd still like the invite).

    I would be first to state that I'm not the best poker player in the world. But I am an investment professional who has a deep interest in how poker can help people learn to invest professionally. So I do think that I'm qualified to make clear the parallels between the two fields.

    But I will work on developing a better (and more extreme) example. Probably best to develop one where a full house is beaten by a poker.
  • B.M.
    Funny that you wrote how investing is like Poker, yet you don't understand poker...

    THIS, below, is impossible in Texas Hold'em....
    "On the other hand, the bad luck can come when the AA pocket cards with a third Ace on the flop is beaten by the amateur who started with 27 offsuit and ends up with a full house of 7s and 2s."

    As anyone who understands poker will tell you, this is practically an ideal situation for the holder of AA and A on the flop. Aces full of 7s beats 7s full of 2s. The AA guy would win an ENORMOUS pot, equal to all the money 72off had.
  • ozjb
    "On the other hand, the bad luck can come when the AA pocket cards with a third Ace on the flop is beaten by the amateur who started with 27 offsuit and ends up with a full house of 7s and 2s."

    Really? I run a home game I'd like to invite you to....
  • Great stuff, as I've read some of Masked Financier's work before. I'd argue that poker is more-so like trading than investing, mostly because of the cash management and risk management aspects. In trading, your capital is at risk all the time and you need to determine how much you can lose on any given trade. Same goes for poker in that you need to set out that you can risk x on any given hand, risk x to buy-in to a tournament, etc. The bankroll management is key and ties right into risk management as you oversee your hands in poker and your trades in trading.

    While obviously the situation can be applied to both investing and trading, I've always leaned that hold 'em is more similar to trading. Either way though, the comparisons are truly crazy if you sit down and think about it. I'm an avid poker player myself but don't play nearly as much as I'd like to. (Was 1 seat away from going to the world series of poker but placed 2nd when I needed to win a tourney to go).

    Oh, one last thing I just remembered. I've been debating this analogy in my head but I think it works. In poker, you are dealt a set of cards and you can play the cards, but great players play the man (their opponent). In financial markets, you can play the actual stock/asset, but often times you have to play the perception rather than the reality.

    Jay
    @marketfolly
  • MarketFolly,

    Thanks for the feedback and comment.

    I've just written a new post which shows one of the most prominent examples of a world class trader (and his firm) building an education program for trading around the medium of poker as a vehicle for learning. The article is about Jeff Yass of Susquehanna and you can find it here - http://bit.ly/Eh8FN.

    MaskedFinancier
  • stomp442fan
    Playing the perception vs. the reality could lead to loss of capital. An example would be the technology bust of the year 2000 (Or RE market 4q 2007-present). The market lost trillions of dollars. People invested on the perception that the markets would go up forever. This would be a new era of investing. But the reality of the tech bubble was that stock prices were appreciating faster than earnings and other fundamental factors. B. Malkiel describes perception vs. reality as building "castles in the air." Soros in the Alchemy of Finance touches over "perception vs. reality in formulating a theory between both terms. B. Graham was most likely against using perception (subjectivity) versus "objectivity" (Intelligent Investor).
  • Right, that kind of ties into what I was saying, I just didn't elaborate. In markets, you have the perception vs reality. One scenario will win and you can technically lose money by playing either side if you're not correct. In poker, you can play your cards or play the man. If you cards are the best hand, you will most likely win. If you are playing the man, you can however misread your opponent if you are playing and lose money that way. Your opponent could have the best hand (reality) when you play the man and think he is bluffing (perception). Very loose tie-ins but hopefully you see what I meant. Reality & Cards .. vs .. Perception & Reading Your Opponent
  • Great comment! Thanks!
  • traderalamo
    The same could be said of most fields. That a certain level of preparation is required no matter what, and that most successful people will seek out the means needed to win at what they do. The way the game is being played now with such a high level of variance makes poker much less similar to trading. I think most traders could not deal with the tremendous profit/loss swings that are now necessary to win at poker. Most traders want small losses to yield larger gains. That is not happening with higher stakes poker. I think what has happened is most traders would like to think they are good at poker just because they are successful in their businesses. Poker is an accessible game, so people like to think the are good at it to feed their own hubris. Nice article tho.
  • TraderAlamo,
    Thanks for the feedback.
    It is correct that preparation is needed for all fields.
    However, I think it is reasonable to say that the preparation needed to play poker profitably is closer to the preparation needed for successful investing, compared so say the preparation needed to play chess well.
    Also, the variance of poker is very different depending on the types of game / tournament being played. At lower limits variance is likely to be lower, and this should be the area that new investors should play poker at to get a sense of what it is like to invest.
    However, there are also investment arenas where the volatility is massive – such as commodity trading, so if that is where an investor wants to play, then high stakes poker will provide a good idea of whether the investor has the capability to deal with the commodities markets.
    The Texas Holdem Investing concept is indeed based on the fact that poker is accessible. It is much more accessible than investing. Yet so many people go into investing without any real sense of what is involved in terms of putting money at risk. Texas Holdem through its accessibility can help investors get a better understanding of the concepts of money at risk in preparation for the investing world.
  • Good thoughts, Trader Alamo. Thanks for contributing.
blog comments powered by Disqus

This post was written by:

The Masked Financier - who has written 3 posts on Wall St. Cheat Sheet.


Contact the author







Advert

Share Your Thoughts

Did you or will you take a vacation this summer?

View Results

Loading ... Loading ...